@Michael If being a ‘top’ author equates to how many books that you sell, and a certain amount of misdirected fame, then I guess that could be true. I write for the love of it, and am happy to have a growing readership, despite not being media savvy or having the time or inclination to be too involved with promotion. Sometimes it’s pure luck or who you know that opens the right door. A literary agent once offered to represent me, but was talking about a three-book deal for a publisher, and the fact that she saw the lead character being in a long running series. ‘Thanks but no thanks’ was my reply. I don’t want to be tied to writing what would become like a never-ending soap opera, just for money. Different strokes for different folks 🙂
@Mike I respect your views, but will just point out one thing, on social media you are popular, Without promoting you are depriving the larger reading world your books. Jusy a thought.
I think it is the definition of ‘top author’ here that I do not like. A top author for me is one who writes terrific books – whose language is excellent and one whose books I enjoy reading. I do not define authors by their economical value!
I’m sorry, it’s not you of course, but the idea – it’s just that I feel strongly about economising everything these days – but you’ve started a great discussion!
@Caroline What for me is really sad, is a really good book not being read widely whilst some poor ones do, and it tends to being down to the media campaigns or lack of them.
You are absolutely right, David. The need to be visible on Social Media is there – I know, I’ve tried to convince one or two authors to use Twitter (@Mark :D) to help them find a broader audience. So you see, I’m against the principle but in practice I’m also part of it!
I’m blushing now Caroline. It is a very interesting discussion too. I write because I love to write, I love telling stories. But of course I would like as many people as possible to read them. Ok, Caroline, you have convinced me. Remind me what I have to do.
@Caroline my next comments to you are just that, you have been part of a media campaign recently that went better than the author expected. For me that book was really good, and some others felt the same. You are indeed part of it and you do it very well indeed.
Like everyone, I’m on a one way journey of indeterminable length, David, and enjoy what I do – including writing – without having to prove anything to myself or others. What is, is! What could have been is of no real consequence to me in the greater scheme of things. It’s what stimulates me today that counts 🙂
I’,m sorry to have overreacted – of course I’m involved in it too (and I love it) so I’m as much part of it as any of you! To apologise and to enlighten the topic (and prove how right David is): Sybil Fawlty reading Harold Robbins – “My wife likes Harold Robbins. After a hard day’s slaving under the hair-dryer she needs to unwind with a few aimless thrills”
I agree David. I spend half of my time writing, and another half promoting, interacting and brand building. It is hard work, but something that if you are serious about, has to be done. You cannot do one without the other, I’m afraid.
I dont completely agree, @David. You cant flog a truly bad book no matter how media savvy you are. Every book has its own audience, some more than others (even Fifty shades of grey!) and a book has to be written for that audience. Luck, whats in vogue, word of mouth, marketing, etc, all play their part, but if we believe that most ‘successful’ books only have 10% good writing in them and are 90% the result of great marketing we are doing a disservice to ‘successful’ authors, however u wish to define them.
Let’s not under-estimate the power of the media. David is not saying that ALL top authors only have 10% talent, but more that if marketed well doesn’t have to be a literary sensation, just pique the interest enough to produce initial sales, which in turn causes discussion and interests movie makers as half of the readers will watch the movie. This then increases author exposure and sales = success.
To me, Cormac McCarthy is an example. I am by no way saying that he is a bad writer, but trying to read ‘ The Road’ that has no indication of speech marks between two nameless characters made it unique…but this sold well and spawned a successful film too. I appreciate others may feel he is a literary genius, but my editor would have ‘ripped me a new one’ (as the kids say) if I’d handed that manuscript in to her!
No @Vaseem I am not saying only 10% good writing, That represents the proportion of effort to make a successful book, the rest is down to marketing. There are some great authors with little success. there are some poor books that make it due to a good marketing programs prior to sale.
You also NEED Lady Luck to whisper in your ear. As we all know only too well, you can do everything right and still fail. That was amply demonstrated in some of the Star Trek: The New Generation programmes, so much so, many companies used them as a example that it doesn’t always work and you didn’t always do something wrong.
@Michael If being a ‘top’ author equates to how many books that you sell, and a certain amount of misdirected fame, then I guess that could be true. I write for the love of it, and am happy to have a growing readership, despite not being media savvy or having the time or inclination to be too involved with promotion. Sometimes it’s pure luck or who you know that opens the right door. A literary agent once offered to represent me, but was talking about a three-book deal for a publisher, and the fact that she saw the lead character being in a long running series. ‘Thanks but no thanks’ was my reply. I don’t want to be tied to writing what would become like a never-ending soap opera, just for money. Different strokes for different folks 🙂
@Mike I respect your views, but will just point out one thing, on social media you are popular, Without promoting you are depriving the larger reading world your books. Jusy a thought.
I think it is the definition of ‘top author’ here that I do not like. A top author for me is one who writes terrific books – whose language is excellent and one whose books I enjoy reading. I do not define authors by their economical value!
Maybe top was a bad choice of a word.
I’m sorry, it’s not you of course, but the idea – it’s just that I feel strongly about economising everything these days – but you’ve started a great discussion!
@Caroline What for me is really sad, is a really good book not being read widely whilst some poor ones do, and it tends to being down to the media campaigns or lack of them.
You are absolutely right, David. The need to be visible on Social Media is there – I know, I’ve tried to convince one or two authors to use Twitter (@Mark :D) to help them find a broader audience. So you see, I’m against the principle but in practice I’m also part of it!
I’m blushing now Caroline. It is a very interesting discussion too. I write because I love to write, I love telling stories. But of course I would like as many people as possible to read them. Ok, Caroline, you have convinced me. Remind me what I have to do.
I have started a thread in the other place re-twitter and it benefits or not.
I’ll get back to you soon with a few things, @Mark !
@Caroline my next comments to you are just that, you have been part of a media campaign recently that went better than the author expected. For me that book was really good, and some others felt the same. You are indeed part of it and you do it very well indeed.
Word of mouth is good but very slow.
@Michael True, David. Good job I’m not too ambitious. 🙂
Its not good going to the grave wondering what could have been.
Like everyone, I’m on a one way journey of indeterminable length, David, and enjoy what I do – including writing – without having to prove anything to myself or others. What is, is! What could have been is of no real consequence to me in the greater scheme of things. It’s what stimulates me today that counts 🙂
I’,m sorry to have overreacted – of course I’m involved in it too (and I love it) so I’m as much part of it as any of you! To apologise and to enlighten the topic (and prove how right David is): Sybil Fawlty reading Harold Robbins – “My wife likes Harold Robbins. After a hard day’s slaving under the hair-dryer she needs to unwind with a few aimless thrills”
@Caroline You are fine,,would it be helpful to authors if we could mange the campaigns better/
Unfortunately that is a very true statement, David.
I agree David. I spend half of my time writing, and another half promoting, interacting and brand building. It is hard work, but something that if you are serious about, has to be done. You cannot do one without the other, I’m afraid.
I dont completely agree, @David. You cant flog a truly bad book no matter how media savvy you are. Every book has its own audience, some more than others (even Fifty shades of grey!) and a book has to be written for that audience. Luck, whats in vogue, word of mouth, marketing, etc, all play their part, but if we believe that most ‘successful’ books only have 10% good writing in them and are 90% the result of great marketing we are doing a disservice to ‘successful’ authors, however u wish to define them.
Let’s not under-estimate the power of the media. David is not saying that ALL top authors only have 10% talent, but more that if marketed well doesn’t have to be a literary sensation, just pique the interest enough to produce initial sales, which in turn causes discussion and interests movie makers as half of the readers will watch the movie. This then increases author exposure and sales = success.
To me, Cormac McCarthy is an example. I am by no way saying that he is a bad writer, but trying to read ‘ The Road’ that has no indication of speech marks between two nameless characters made it unique…but this sold well and spawned a successful film too. I appreciate others may feel he is a literary genius, but my editor would have ‘ripped me a new one’ (as the kids say) if I’d handed that manuscript in to her!
No @Vaseem I am not saying only 10% good writing, That represents the proportion of effort to make a successful book, the rest is down to marketing. There are some great authors with little success. there are some poor books that make it due to a good marketing programs prior to sale.
Great question. Really prompted some strong opinions?
Ello Hannah 🙂
You also NEED Lady Luck to whisper in your ear. As we all know only too well, you can do everything right and still fail. That was amply demonstrated in some of the Star Trek: The New Generation programmes, so much so, many companies used them as a example that it doesn’t always work and you didn’t always do something wrong.