Would you recommend Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged for a 15 year old reader?
Would you recommend Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged for a 15 year old reader?
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start with anthem. i was 17 when i read atlas shrugged
Terrible book, wouldn’t recommend it in any context
Only if you want your 15 year-old to bear witness to the kind of thinking that is about to bring the human race to an end.
With all of the truly good books that there will never be enough time to read, spending so much as a minute on Rand seems a colossal waste. Responding specifically to your question, though, fifteen year-olds are highly impressionable; I’m inclined to think that the judgement and critical thinking skills that come with post-adolescent brain development are needed to evaluate Rand’s philosophy and reject it without it leaving a taint.
I read Anthem in high school and it was a really good conversation starter for me to start to think critically about different ideologies etc. That book was easy to read and understand. I haven’t read Atlas Shrugged though so I don’t know how it compares.
No. Turgid potboiler.
Absolutely. It will help shape them into an intelligent and productive independent member of society and they’ll learn how economics really work and the dangers of incorrect economical thinking. Please do have them read it!
@Tonia Sorry Tonia but I believe you’ve completely misunderstood Rand’s philosophy.
@Gretchen not at all. I understand it perfectly having studied objectivism for years. Atlas Shrugged shows the economic side of that philosophy.
Gretchen Hoover I highly recommend reading Rand’s Virtue of Selfishness—it explains in detail how objectivism is a complete moral philosophy and rather than be the “don’t help anyone” nonsense people try to present her philosophy as, it shows how we could actually build a utopian society based on individual responsibility. It’s really worth the time to read.
Selfishness is not a virtue
Hence one of the core problems with her philosophy and why it’s a significant contribution to the world’s ills
@Brent read it. She specifically deals with issue people take with this and corrects their misconceptions of what “selfishness “ actually is.
People have been brainwashed into thinking certain words mean concepts that they don’t. Selfishness is one of many of these examples.
I read Atlas Shrugged and got enough of her philosophy to know that it’s flawed beyond repair
@Brent I’m curious, can you give one specific example?
“Selfishess” is defined differently in economics. Selfishness, or more accurately self-interest, is a core and very reasonable principle in the study of economics, and it does not have an element of “virtue” or lack thereof assigned to it as in the everyday usage and meaning of the term.
Tonia Zulauf one of the main flaws is that financial success is it’s own morality
@Brent well you’re generalizing, and it would take an in-depth discussion to go over that. See she isn’t saying that at all—she’s saying (and I’m summing up here as succinctly as possible) that morality comes from RATIONAL self-interest and that no one has a right to ask you for your earnings, that they are responsible for their own earnings. Equally, we have no right to expect others to give us their gains. THAT is actually selfishness in the modern liberal brainwashed corruption of the concept. Her philosophy does NOT condone what liberals think of as capitalism (cutthroat do-anything-to-get-ahead) but instead pure capitalism where freedom to produce and sell your own goods and services causes wealth and prosperity. Nowhere does she state we should do whatever it takes to get wealth—rather she insists on promoting yourself without interfering in anyone else’s road to their success. A capitalist economy is wonderfully flexible and works in a small or large society—it’s self-sustainable. In fact, it produces good moral character through healthy competition to provide the best products and services at the lowest possible price. Competition automatically produces quality control. Anyway, I hope you’ll actually read her and come to appreciate her incredible insights.
Tonia Zulauf people can try to justify her stuff all they want, I’m not buying what she’s selling
@Brent you can take crumbs instead of bread if you want. My only problem is with liberals forcing their ideas on the rest of us. There’s no compromise, only two ideologies that are incompatible. I’d personally like to divide the world in two—non-capitalists on one side and capitalists on the other. I can guarantee which side would flourish. There’s a reason people in non-capitalist societies flee to capitalist societies and that’s more than enough proof.
If you look at the success of Nordic countries, you’ll detect a flaw in your narrative
@Brent that’s not real socialism. Also slight forms of some socialistic aspects will work under very narrow circumstances. Their system which isn’t even a real example of socialism won’t work elsewhere. Capitalism will work everywhere based on 1)free market and 2) supply/demand which happens everywhere all the time no matter the location or geographical circumstances.
@Brent here’s an article to help explain the Nordic socialist myth. It’s Forbes, before credibility gets attacked: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/amp/
Most Americans that are interested in something closer to Socialism are talking about that Nordic model, so characterize it however it works
@Brent well I did say their model wouldn’t work here. Consider this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/ten-reasons-we-cant-and-shouldnt-be-nordic/amp/
@Brent also this:
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/10/20/can-the-us-become-denmark/a-scandinavian-us-would-be-a-problem-for-the-global-economy
Just things to consider that’s all. And I’m sorry, I ended up hijacking the post—really didn’t mean to. It’s a passionate subject for me. And thank you for your patience and tolerance and not getting angry. ? it’s nice to have a civil discussion.
Totally
Prepare them for John Gaults speech in the end. That was a tough slog for me at 30.
@Bill Who is John Galt? ?
@Irene Uh did I misspell his name? And yes, I get the pun. Good one…
No
If they can stay awake..
Not for someone that young.
I think the question is “does he want to read it?” I think someone who’s 15 has the ability to read almost anything. I’d be less positive if an adult was trying to introduce a world view.
No
A very bright 15-year-old, absolutely. Some people are NEVER ready for it. They become Left Wing Snowflakes. And you can see their responses on this thread, pretending that it’s a waste of time.
@Chris indeed!
They’ve never read her, yet they’ll knock it! Mindless zombies repeating what they’re told, not reading it for themselves.
No. Maybe Anthem. Atlas Shrugged is long and has some very dry parts to it. Not a fan of hers, but maybe Anthem. It’s shorter
As a punishment? Only if you want to destroy their love of reading. It’s an overwrought slog of nonsense which takes some maturity and life experience to fully not appreciate.
Content is fine, but it’s not an easy read.
No. It’ll destroy literature for them
No way.
Sure, that’s the age that most people I know got exposed to Ayn Rand. She is a not a good novelist, but she makes interesting cases in her polemic. ANTHEM is a better and shorter piece, and less to do with her economic philosophy. It’s more a dystopian novella based on her experiences in the communist regime of the USSR.
No
No
Nope
No
I read three of her novels (including the bloated Atlas Shrugged), and some of her non-fiction as well — in my early 20s. Thankfully I outgrew her rather warped views to justify sociopathy. Her rhetoric is what gives the appearance of sounding “inspirational” and yet the substance behind it all is really a justification for sociopathic “ideals.”
I wouldn’t recommend Rand for anyone at ANY age, but especially at such a young age.
And, even her ideology aside, her novels are laughably written.
No
Several years HS honors classes had it in their recommended reading. I would start with Anthem or We the Living, just because they are shorter and at the beginning of her literary life. Learning about philosophies such as Objectivism allows educated thought and not just a blind hatred for opposing thought. If your son enjoys dystopian literature, try We by Evgeny Zamyatin. You will see the origins of Orwell, Rand and the like.
…And, to add: Strictly from a *literary* perspective, one of the biggest problems with Ayn Rand’s novels is a total lack of ambiguity — there is a clear cut “morality” to adhere to, or not. It leaves little or no room for character development — either you are (implcitly) an Objectivist, or you are the enemy.
Compare this to Dostoevsky, who certainly had his own ideals and sought to embody them in his stories. But his characters are never so clear cut — they have mixed motives, and even other characters who do not embody those ideas are treated with a kind of pathos which makes many of his characters more than just stand-ins for some abstract ideological systems. Great literature portrays life much more messy than any of our ideals — Ayn Rand never got the memo.
In this regard Rand is no different than many other poor writers who can’t imagine a story without clear cut white hats and black hats. What is worse, she sees the world the same way — no wonder she resembles religious fundamentalists who carve up the world in the same Manichean way.
Dostoevsky reveled in ambiguities. All his characters are, in some way, torn. FD dealt with divided individuals, albeit fictional ones, long before Freud came onto the scene to explicate the matter for real people.
@Joshua i kind of like the more us vs. them mentality—it’s kind of refreshing. I don’t know if moral ambiguity and character development aren’t mutually exclusive though. Some classical characters are upheld as paragons of virtue based on their strict adherence to principles. But that sure is an interesting topic for discussion! ?
Nope
I wouldn’t recommend Ayn Rand to anyone.
No……little adult for a 15 year old IMO
As a footrest, maybe. I’m with Harvey Zabala.
There seem to be a lot of people answering the original question from an ideological standpoint and coming down hard on their own side of the political divide. I read some pretty heavy stuff at 15. If they have expressed an interest in reading it, let them have a go. There’s no rule that says you have to finish a book you’re not enjoying. Give them the chance to form their own ideas.
O.H.N.
Sure. Then they’ll reread it 15 years later.
I would discourage it, if there’s a choice. If your child is going to read it anyway, I suggest you express your point of view about the message of the book before they read it and especially after. It’s a powerfully presented message that I personally find disturbing It needs immediate nonjudgmental conversation with the emphasis on hearing and respecting their opinion first.
I read the Fountainhead first when I was 15. I couldn’t put it down. Liked Atlas Shrugged even more. I had no one to discuss either with. College helped me put her philosophy into perspective.
I read “The Fountainhead” around that time, too!!!! Changed my life!! Loved it!!
Thank you all so much for your comments! Now I will really know what to expect going into this book if I decide I want to give it a chance? I am so glad to hear from a network of other readers with diverse opinions?