I know this might be controversial, but give me an example of an unhealthy/abusive relationship in a YA book. Other than Twilight.
I know this might be controversial, but give me an example of an unhealthy/abusive relationship in a YA book. Other than Twilight.
Tamlin & Feyre in ACOTAR
@Nicole that’s the first one that came to my mine too.
To be honest I think this is all a matter of personal perspective.
And let’s be fair, if there was no abuse/ offensive behaviour generally in books, they would all be all happy and happily ever after. (Not very realistic or interesting if ut all goes nicely if you ask me)
I take any book with a pinch of salt, especially if it’s fantasy.
(I don’t think twilight is an good example of abuse.)
Agree
This is the best comment I have read. I’ve been in an emotional abusive, manipulative relationship and I’ve lived through my mom in a physically abusive relationship. I dont consider any of the books people are listing as abusive. Maybe not the most healthy relationships in all stages but even real relationships have issues and people have to grow.
Twilight is toxic and the fact that people are making excuses for that kind of behaviour is exactly the reason these books are so dangerous
@Airion that is your opinion and not everyone has to share it.
@Airion life is toxic. Should we pretend these things don’t happen? Are you that naive? Or would you prefer that people experience this issues in real life rather in the safe space of a book??
As a survivor of mental abuse I’d definatly say I’d rather have read it in a book.
Does abuse in books bother me? Not really it’s not real. I know the difference.
See look at that. I used some sense, didn’t get offended and so my day carries on!!
@Catherine well said! I hate that people think the majority of readers are so clueless they can’t tell fantasy from reality.
Under the blue by Josephine dillion
Cruel Prince by Holly Black ?
@Jennifer came here to say this
I haven’t read it yet. How is it abusive or unhealthy? And I don’t mind spoilers.
He’s a violent bully who actively seeks to harm, and potentially kill, the MC. But they make out and it’s all fine and dandy. It’s really fucked up and perpetuates this awful stereotype that boys who like you should bully you and be violent.
@Jennifer wow. I’ve seen a lot of love and hate with this book. I can’t stand the love interest being manipulative or abusive (emotionally, physically, ect). I may just ignore this book
They’re fae and it’s clearly not meant to mirror a real life or healthy relationship–and isn’t even a relationship yet in canon.
the difference between most unhealthy relationships in todays YA vs Twilight ( which is over 10 years old) is that it’s self aware that it’s unhealthy, meaning you, as the reader have it pointed out by the author. Twilight is unaware of the unhealthy aspects of the relationship. Jude and Carden from Cruel Prince, unhealthy in many aspects, but YOU as a reader are aware of the characters issues. Twilight isn’t self aware in that way. Side note, not hating on twilight, it was revolutionary for it’s time.
I agree 100%! YA today would be nothing if Twilight hadn’t put it in the map. I happily own the series because of how it changed the industry and it’s a guilty pleasure.
Feyre and tamlin from a court of thrones and roses. It fits almost every sign of an abusive relationship. Its shocking how many people dont see or realize that.
The couple in the golden dynasty by kristen ashley. Still mad about that book.
Feyre and Tamlin was intentionally an abusive relationship, that started from the illusion of “he loves me” and progressed into the constrictive fear many abuse victims experience before escaping their abuse situations. There are issues with Maas’ series that should be addressed, and I wholeheartedly agree that it was abusive and shocking how few realised at first, but it was a feature of the books that made me really feel for the character. Thank you for mentioning it in the way you did <3
The relationship in Uprooted. Didn’t get it at all. I know it’s technically an adult book but I’ve only seen the hype for it in the YA community. I still don’t get it.
Y E S uprooted, aside from being one of the most disappointing books ive ever read, has the most ridiculous relationship development ive ever seen. like, even i have some lenience for the whole “behaves like a dick but eventually manages to treat her like an actual human being enough to form a relationship” in books, but the transition from “he treats her like shit” to suddenly “ooh they gonna fuck” is literally like reading one half of one boo and the other half of another. makes no sense.
(im done now im off my soap box)
@Malika Y E S x2 You GET me!! I’ve definitely had some instances where he’s a dick at first but changes and it was been done well so I don’t mind that trope, but I got whiplash so bad in this book lol it didn’t make sense! You’re right, it was literally I hate him to yeah let’s get it on ? like wtf ? thanks for the comment! You are one of the rare that agree with me and I thank you for that!
Patch and Nora in Hush, Hush. Edit: Maybe not abusive but definitely problematic. For stalking and wanting to kill her for most of the first book
@Samantha wait what? I haven’t read those books in years- but I remember loving them together? Is there something I can’t remember/young teenage Mikki didn’t pick up on?
At first I can see that with the lies etc. I need to reread as well
Definitely don’t remember how this was abusive?
Samantha Rose definitely don’t find them abusive
Patch is definitely a stalker type, that’s why
He stalks Nora in the first book. His behavior is better, though, in following books if I remember right
@Samantha he follows her because people are trying to kill her though…. he’s trying to protect her
I felt their relationship was problematic as well. Maybe I wouldn’t have said “abusive” but problematic, yes.
At first HE stalks her to kill her, then changes his tune when he falls for her toward the end.
Yeah not abusive as much as problematic. Thanks Bethany 🙂
@Samantha there we go. I like problematic more than abusive
The complete After series by Anna Todd
Tessa and Hardin
I’m thinking After by Anna Todd. Is that ya? I think it is…
@Tiffany yep. It’s YA and toxic
@Taylor it’s a wild book that’s for sure.
@Tiffany it’s a wild series.
Very true!
Is that the book that has a movie coming out soon? I haven’t read the book, but I can see from the movie trailer that it’s not the healthiest relationship lol.
Yep. And oh my god. It’s a toxic waste dump of a relationship.
This shouldn’t even be considered as a book. It has no plot whatsoever and the characters are bland and stupid.
I was going to say the same thing. Terrible relationship ?
Is it more abusive or unhealthy?
@Angelee I’m gonna say abusive. Considering he had her bloody bed sheets to win a bet and only tried to sleep with her, put her down a lot and left her in another country, alone.
@Taylor heeeeeeell nah!
It Ends With Us by Coleen Hoover
@Julie This one definitely. But I think it was written to highlight abusive relationships. Personally, this is my fave book of Colleen because it’s just so damn realistic.
Most of them honestly. Most of them are teen and young adult relationships and most teen and young adult relationships are not healthy. You are still learning who you and so is your partner and it is hard to love someone who is always changing and growing
I’m only one and a bit books into the Bargainer series but that relationship is definitely toxic at the moment
@Mia It gets better!!
So much better!
By Laura Thalassa? Its sitting next to me lol I’m reading her Fallen World series. The main couple are definitely not healthy together. The main guy is very cruel and kills easily for the smallest things, but as the reader, u KNOW it’s not healthy.
I’m not understanding how twilight is controlling
Vampires and werewolves can literally kill Bella accidentally with zero effort and thought. How?
Feyre and tamlin are an example.
@Aaron it’s controlling and threatening tendencies. Edward literally says “I will kill myself if anything happens to you” he disables her car so she can’t visit Jacob. It’s unhealthy.
It’s controlling definitely.
But again, their world is ridiculously dangerous with creatures that could kill her in an instant
And when she becomes a vampire, he lays off
Didn’t Edward sabotage Bella’s car so she couldn’t go see Jacob?
Controlling is an abusive tendency. Not all abuse is physical. It’s an emotional abuse.
Yea he did
Yeah that’s abuse.
Bella was also a danger magnet and super prone to doing things that more then often resulted in her life being put in danger, but I can understand how it’s abusive I guess
It doesn’t really matter what happened after she became a vampire. Abuse is abuse. The adult who verbally and mentally abused me as a child doesn’t do so now, because I’m an adult, but that doesn’t matter. What he did was still abuse. There’s never a justification for controlling and manipulating someone. That’s not love.
@Rachel yes because he didn’t want her to visit the werewolves because they were dangerous. It was overkill, for sure, but it wasn’t JUST because he didn’t want her to see a male friend.
Ask any mental health professional. They’ll agree it’s abuse.
@Lucy it’s still controlling. She wanted to and he chose to take that option away from her. Controlling is abuse.
^exactly
Nah, I never thought it was abusive. Edward TRIED to be over protective and Bella never let him. she wasn’t afraid of Edward. He had old fashioned ideas of how to handle things and Bella was like eff you that’s not how this works, and Edward was like oh ok I’ll have go jump on board with that. And he did. I know what mental abuse is; you become afraid od the person, you second guess yourself, you think you’re the crazy one, and you’re anxious all the time. This was not that at all
I think they were unhealthy for one another. The co dependency and romanticized suicide is definitely unhealthy, but I understand.
I was thinking of it as if I was in their world and not the real one.
I’d definitely see it as abusive if it wasn’t a book
Aaron White It’s not any partner’s responsibility to keep the other safe. Safety is the responsibility of the individual. Edward’s way of saying “if you do this it will hurt me so bad I’ll die” is considered emotionally abusive and controlling. Regardless of the dangers, he should have given her the information and let her make her own decisions. His choice to continually stay with someone who makes bad decisions and gets herself into trouble, while also putting the stress back on himself of it being his job to keep her safe is damaging to him. The idea of “if I love you I’ll protect you” is antiquated and damaging to the female *and* male psyche.
@Shae I agree. That was very well putt
except he didn’t damage Bella at all. She did what she wanted. And Bella manipulated Edward too. And Jacob. It’s a bunch of teenagers for heaven’s sake, calling it abuse is a bit dramatic
@Jessica The problem is, teenagers are learning this co-dependent, obsessive behavior somewhere. A teenager reading twilight isn’t going to roll his/her eyes and say “oh it’s just teenagers being dumb” theyre going to think that is how love it and act it out in the real world.
@Shae ….I read it as a teen and I didn’t jump to that conclusion
@Shae so my issue with the “he said he’d kill himself” argument is that Bella literally did the exact same thing. Maybe she didn’t consciously decide she wanted to die when she jumped off the cliff, but she certainly was willing to risk her life so she could hear his voice. Her doing that in response to him leaving her (for her own safety) is far more manipulative, IMO. I’m NOT saying it’s fair for him to put that on her, either, but she’s not innocent in that respect, either.
Aside from that, yes, I agree she should’ve been allowed to make her own choices.
While we’re at it, i wonder why everyone gets on Edward, but Noone acknowledges Jacob sexually assualting her
@Aaron EXACTLY!!! Thank you!!
@Lucy They’re BOTH being manipulative. Which is why I said it’s damaging to both the female *and* male psyche. However, emotional manipulation is often assigned to women, with the counter on the male side being “it was just for her protection” as it was written and demonstrated in the book. That perspective has been further displayed in the comments here with people arguing that he was just doing it for her protection. The way that each character’s perspective was written was to reinforce gendered relationship roles which are, in essence, the same behavior but often labeled and justified differently.
@Aaron I have just as many issues with Jacob, but she doesn’t end up with him.
I hold twilight dear as it introduced me to “romance” so I’m prone to defending it without thinking, but I understand/understood the abuse. I was being an idiot, sorry ladiess
@Shae I hear what you’re saying. I think I just take issue with how most people assign all blame to Edward, ignoring Bella’s own issues.
Their relationship is exactly like patch and Nora. I immediately thought of their relationship as emotionally abusive
I don’t get why everyone is so up and arms over this book, lol. It’s a book, it’s fiction, and there are many, many worse examples of actual abuse in other stories. There’s way too much overthinking going on in this thread, have fun y’all
I read way way worse than twilight as a teen. I knew it was fiction and I definitely didn’t base how a relationship should be off of them.
@Jessica young impressionable minds read them and base how a relationship should be off of these books/movies. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the books, nor Do I think they should be changed, but I understand acknowledging the flaws
@Aaron I never read pass Hush, Hush but I’m curious what else happened to get them like that?
@Aaron yeah, we can’t blame books for not sending the right messages. Just like we cant blame video games on violent behavior. I hate that way of thinking. Maybe parents should teach their kids better, or maybe teenagers just suck, lol. But like I said, I read it as a teenager and I’m fine. It’s not an authors job to make sure kids are getting the “right message.”
I wouldn’t blame the book, per se, but I do think that abuse is a pervasive problem and that girls and women (males as well) aren’t taught about healthy relationships, consent, different types of abuse, and resources for you if your partner is abusing you. Those who have low self esteem are especially at risk and many girls in their teenage years have low self esteem. There’s a lot of factors that play into girls and women forming unhealthy ideas about abuse and love and the differences between the two. Shoot I’m 26 and I’m still learning (thanks to counseling).
@Shae this is fair, but also remember that vampires are fundamentally different from humans. If this was a human relationship, then it’s 100% abusive. But vampires are fundamentally different form humans. They can only mate once. They are animalistic and instinct driven. It’s not fair to hold a relationship with a vampire to the same standards asa relationship with a human.
@Taylor patch is very controlling and often uses his lack of emotions as reasonung for his nature
@Aaron so true, I rewatched the series the other week (couldn’t be bothered to reread them) and Jacob is actually a nice guy™️
Rhysand and Feyre
@Valeria disagree
Why Rhysand and Feyre? Definatly Tamlin and Feyre, but Rhysand gives Feyre all the space she needs. He is the complete opposite of tamlin
10000% disagree
@Ruby exactly!
Rhysand is the opposite of abusive!!
@Valeria but honestly though, I wanted your reasoning before people started screaming at you for an unpopular opinion
@Ruby I’d love to see a different perspective.
@Valeria I can agree with you up until a point, their relationship in the first book was very toxic. Even though (spoiler! Don’t read if your haven’t read book 2 and on!) they’re happy together and respect each other and give the other the space they need and want, that doesn’t excuse how bad their relationship started out.
@Kira ooohh I didn’t consider that maybe she was referencing the stuff from ACOTAR. Yes that certainly was problematic and you can’t really excuse it despite the reasons SJM gives us, but ACOMAF is a literal work of art with all of the character development she gives us
@Ruby I have to disagree. Due to his explanation in ACOWAR. If anything Rhys went above and beyond to ensure her safety and survival at his expense and in turn theirs.
@Barbie yeah but he did kinda torture her into agreeing to his bargain, what with her arm and such. Don’t get me wrong, I really love where the relationship went and how it developed, but I know people like reading to be a safe space and ACOTAR got quite dark near the end
@Ruby Had he been kind they would have noticed. He had to keep Amaranth fooled. He plotted and undermined her for 50 YEARS. So, I respect your view but I stand with that decision. And I don’t see it as torture. Ultimate manipulation yes.
Honestly I can kind of see this, but not as Rhysand as the abuser. Reading through it I thought Feyre as frequently emotionally abusive to Rhysand, though I do understand she was in a very very dark place in her life, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen
@Barbie I haven’t found anyone yet that has seen Feyre as anything but the most perfect creation, and there are some aspects about her I love, but the way she treated Rhysand for so long even after she got over Tamlin majorly turned me off towards her and the third book.
He was manipulative, and that in itself isn’t a good or healthy start but we understand WHY and it is not consistent behavior for him, unlike Feyre’s continued, acute cruelness or straight disregard for how things would affect him.
I do love that she started to grow towards the end of the books but fuck was she awful for a while
I’m curious to know your reasoning as well. Because, from my perspective at least, Rhysand did almost everything right from the beginning. I can see how it would be perceived as toxic if you didn’t read chapter 54 in ACOMAF where he explains everything.
@Marissa ??♀️
She is not perfect. And unpopular opinion but despite Tam’s behavior (not excusing it at all) she mistreated him in book 2. She at least ensured his people’s safety but what she did was… not sure what the word is…. inexcusable??
@Barbie I know, I actually have no problem with Feyre and Rhysands relationship. I understand and accept all of the reasons why he did what he did. I’m just saying I also understand why people dont/can’t accept that
@Ruby Well, yes. This is true. I like to read the different perspectives. And a healthy opinionated view is always welcome, at least from me.
100% feyre and tamlin.
Jude and Cardan
One step further: Taryn and Locke.
The whole story is set in the world of fae, who have orange and blue morality in comparison to black and white human morality. Besides, it’s not even meant for either of them to be seen as ideal or healthy relationships? Taryn is openly marrying Locke to have a place in Faerie and Jude and Cardan are just hooking up and obsessive/hate relationship at this point. It’s not even subtle that you’re not supposed to mirror the cruel and violent actions of these characters. Jude is practically an antiheroine by the end of TWK.
I’m not understanding how people don’t think Twilight is abusive? He’s extremely controlling (which is a form of emotional abuse regardless of whether he’s doing it “for her safety”), and they’re incredibly co-dependent, which is also unhealthy. They tried to romanticize committing suicide for each other. Not all of those aspects are abusive, per sea, but they’re definitely extremely unhealthy.
Hell Yeah, man. Thank you!
This is fair, but also remember that they are vampires and werewolves. The suicide aspect, for example, is like… Edward literally will never be able to fall in love ever again. They actually cannot live without each other. Like they stop functioning properly. By human standards, yeah it’s unhealthy. But holding a supernatural relationship to normal standards makes no sense.
@Jamie but when you think about it that’s exactly what young girls do. They read this and romanticize Edward and Bella and think that’s what they want in a relationship.
@Taylor I mean, this is a fair critique. I don’t think that books necessarily need to present model relationships though. And I think maybe it’s more up to people societally to teach people that this isn’t actually an ideal rather than attack the things that people like.
@Jamie I agree. But as an example as a child I loved watching Buffy and wanted her with the bad boy (spike) as I grew up I learned on my own that this isn’t healthy. I worry about young people wanting this kind of relationship
Fair enough, but the fact that he’s supernatural doesn’t change the fact that his behaviors were really creepy and controlling and hers were way too codependent for an 18 year old girl. And that’s just not romantic to me. It was when I was a teen and didn’t know better, but as an adult it makes me cringe. There’s a great way to do supernatural relationships without being quite that toxic.
@Taylor This is fine, but like you said, you grew up. I really wanted a relationship like Bella and Edward, but by the time I was like 14, I realized what aspects were not ideal about that relationship. I honestly didn’t listen to quite a few critiques before that specifically just because it seemed like people were just hating on what I liked. Letting people like what they like but then also learn is healthier imo.
I’m not knocking people who like it, let me clear that up. If you’re mature enough to look past it and recognize that that’s not an ideal romantic situation and still enjoy it, then great. However, I just hope that parents of kids who are reading this book are having open dialogue about healthy relationships. Just because people are critical of something doesn’t mean we’re knocking down the people who like it. You’re allowed to like things and be vocal about it, as are others allowed to NOT like it and be vocal about it. It’s all in the delivery and tact. People don’t necessarily go into a book looking for healthy relationships, and it definitely makes for great drama, but it should still be recognized and not glossed over.
@Jamie You’re contradicting yourself. You say let people enjoy it but teach them it’s unhealthy and then you say that you didn’t listen to people who were hating on what you like. The danger with Twilight is that the relationships weren’t portrayed honestly. The author didn’t say ‘hey kids, this behaviour is bad/toxic/abusive’, she just romanticised everything. Young, impressionable people learn that that behaviour is normal, or you don’t love someone unless you behave like that. It’s really desensitising people to how they should and shouldn’t treat and be treated
@Airion I’m saying that it’s not the authors job so much as society’s job to be teaching stuff like that, but that teaching it in a manner that seems inflammatory or accusatory, as if often does seem with Twilight, will only make people less inclined to listen.
The first book of the series A Court of Thorns and Roses (ACOTAR)
@Barbie the beginning of the second book too
@Barbie really just Feyre and Tamlin
@Vivi Yes!! Didn’t want to spoil it. But absolutely, it gets worse
It’s sappost to be, keep reading
@Barbie I literally cannot get over how SJM managed to fool us so badly. While I didn’t come out shipping feyre and tamlin in the first book, I didn’t recognise it as abusive, until ACOMAF hit me over the face with a brick. Then when I went back to ACOTAR and started noticing all of the warning signs and bad stuff and I just couldn’t believe I missed it all
@Ruby I kick myself daily for not catching all the hints. ??♀️
I think that is actually something she did incredibly well, in terms of representing how difficult it can be to recognize an abusive relationship when you’re in one. Since we see it all from Feyre’s perspective we are blinded by her affection just like she is. It hopefully gives us all some insight into how abusive relationships come to pass.
The relationship in the cruel prince.
Vampire academy
@Marissa yes!! I was 100% team Adrian in that one.
@Lucy yes I love bloodline but not va ??♀️ it was so cringeworthy for me
@Marissa agreed. I get the hot for teacher thing, but I think Adrian was way better for her.
Adrian blackmailed her into being with him! How is that better for her?
Ummmm no he didn’t but that’s really not it it’s the Lissa rose relationship and the dimitri relationship
“Ill pay for you to go after Dimitri as long as you date me” isnt blackmail?
@Camille that’s not what he said he asked for a fair chance. Which she still didn’t give him. And for the record I don’t like her with Adrian either he’s to good for her.
@Marissa oh I completely forgot about her relationship with Lissa ?♀️ That just irritated me, but that’s because I can’t stand martyrs.
Yeah, yikes that age gap between Rose and Dimitri.
@Camille that’s really what bothered me most and “they come first” I didn’t like that either
I get a lot of flack for this, but THE MORTAL INSTRUMENTS series is full of toxic relationships
@RaRa other than Alec’s and Magnus big fight in Lost Souls can’t really agree with that one but to each their own.
@RaRa which relationships?
Jem, Will and Tessa
Emily Ribeiro It’s just how I interpret the relationships, but Jace, Clary, Simon, Isabella, all had relationships I just don’t think were healthy (I read them at a young age, 17 now, and this wasn’t great for me)
I personally don’t think Jem Will and Tessa are toxic. They have issues yes, but their friendships are a helluva lot deeper than their love
@Mercedes that’s not the Mortal Instruments. That’s The Infernal Devices.
Waite ??? Will, Jem and Tessa was unhealthy ??
Personally I think CC did a great job with all the relationships considering how much each person grew. I don’t consider any of them toxic but that’s just me.
I think had Jessa or Wessas relationship ruined the three of their friendships then yes it would be toxic, but she truly did love both of them and she didn’t end up causing a riff
@Taylor same here, I feel like all of the relationships were realistic to a certain point, but say Malecs issues in LS are realistic within relationships in our world, which I liked a lot. I don’t disagree it was a bit problematic but that’s how actual relationships can be- and they overcame it, which is the point
Yes, exactly! I always saw Tessa as a ploy person, and their friendship was not ruines, actually it got stronger. And a big yes about the Malec relationship. a good relation is not supposed to be perfect with no fights. it’s about fighting and figuring out like adults what is wrong and COMMUNICATION . Malec is all about communication.
Yes!!! I totally agree
Cleary/jace, dianna /Mathew, kaz/inje, will/tessa, tessa/jem
@Taylor she meant colleen hoover
@Bianca how are Tessa’s relationships abusive..?
@Cheyenne in the beginning when will is just plain rude I’m sorry but nothing excuses that it’s emotionally abusive and then she minipulates jem as dues will towards the end.
Bianca Grant what..I think we read different books. Because someone is rude to you isn’t abuse. He has his reasons which he did clearly explain too her. Also at that point they were barely friends and far from any type of relationship
Wait, are you referencing Diana and Matthew of the All Souls Trilogy? Definitley got some issues there but it’s not YA by a loooong shot.
And Kaz is an antihero, his relationship with Inej is honestly the most wholesome thing about him. The Six of Crows kids are basically part of a gang running illegal heists. Why would we /expect/ it to be healthy?
Rowan and Aelin.
@Savanna just wondering, have you read past Heir of Fire, if so can you explain this reasoning a bit more? I’m just a little curious is all. I will admit I am an avid lover of all SJMs writing, though Aelin and Rowan isn’t quite an OTP, I don’t understand why some people see it as abusive
I don’t think you can pass judgement unless you’ve read the entire series.
@Bianca I have read the entire series and even though he has changed a bit by the end, he’s still a bit possessive of her.
I will admit HoF was fretty bad for them but in the later books they grew healthier and really do love each other
@Tamika I have read all the books actually, and I do agree but I dont think it’s the healthiest relationship
@Grace what?
A perfect 100% healthy relationship doesn’t exist, especially not in war. Also nothing wrong with possessiveness as long as Aelin is okay with it herself.
Kaylee Bont i also feel that aelin is WAAAAYYY more possessive of Rowan than he could ever be of her. She was very possessive of him from the start, especially in the HOF extra chapter when she breathed fire at Rowan’s ex
@Ruby aaawh i never read that extra chapter :(, sounds interesting! The possesiveness probably comes with the mating bond ? and after all, it’s fiction and i don’t think something is unhealthy in a relationship when both parties are totally ok with it. That’s what i hate most about the YA genre, everyone is so sensitive about the smallest things, while it’s just fiction.
@Kaylee tbh I haven’t read that chapter either lol. I just know it was something that happened
Ron & Hermoines relationship at the end of the Harry Potter books
@Robyn I think you’re going to have to elaborate on this one, lol.
@Lucy Not abusive just unhealthy as they’re polar opposites. This from the author JK Rowling herself
@Robyn ohh ok, I definitely agree they’re super different. I honestly never got the attraction there.
Let me get this right. Only people with things in common can have a healthy relationship?
im just repeating what THE author to the series has said in herself about that relationship. That it was unhealthy and required a lot of therapy to be successful. Per the author of the series said in a interview AND on her website for the series
@Ann I think that’s kind of an overly broad statement. I never really bought the relationship between those two at all because they just seemed way too different from one another. I felt the same way about Edward and Bella and many other characters. That doesn’t mean I think two people who are dissimilar can have a healthy relationship; I just think THEIR differences made their relationship hard to buy.
@Lucy I was just repeating what the author stated in a interview when asked about it.
@Robyn no I know what you were saying. The other poster made a comment that I was responding to ?
@Lucy good to know
Don’t listen to anything J K Retcon says
@Airion jk retcon???
Beautiful disaster
Omg YES
Cruel Prince, ACOTAR, ToG
The relationship in Uprooted (the relationship was kinda disgusting), and *ACOTAR SPOILER* Feyre and Tamlin, but also Feyre and Rhysand. The “beginning” of that relationship was just disgusting ?
And the one in Cruel Prince, but I feel like that one is also acknowledged by one of the characters. (Haven’t read book #2)
Cardan and Jude
@Mia One step further: Taryn and Locke.
Definitely Taryn and Jude. But I don’t think it’s a romanticized relationship. It is a bad relationship that is portrayed as bad.
@Amanda almost every relationship in the series is toxic to a degree. even Jude and Oak’s.
The Fae are deceptive and malicious. ??♀️ If you want a book about kind-hearted souls, go read about elves and hobbits.
@Amanda that’s what I think when people complain about Maas’ men. “oh they’re so possessive.” Yeah, they aren’t human and it’s their animal instincts. Which they repeat and discuss through the series.
“Territorial fae bastard”
Ha. Right.
Anastasia and Christian.
La mayoría de las sagas juveniles jakakjaka ?
Romeo and Juliet
@Ro I think the worst part is that Romeo & Juliet is often “required reading” for many high schoolers (at least in the United States), compared to other books & fictional relationships mentioned here which many teens usually read for fun.
Romeo I always hated Romeo and Juliet they are both flawed and children with short attention stands, not a love story at all
Agreed! The tragedy of Romeo and Juliet isn’t that young hearts were torn asunder, but that literally none of the adults were any help at all. They were so busy with their silly feud that they let their children run about with swords and poison.
Feyre and Tamlin.
The wicked king. Jude and Cardan. UGH that whole relationship drove me insane.
@Kathryn
Omg. Yes!! I cannot understand any part of their relationship.
@Kathryn One step further: Taryn and Locke.
Yes to all of this. I hope Cardan dies in the end, Locke too.
no!!! I don’t want Cardan to die, I feel he has hidden depth. Though Locke can die
Noooo! Cardan needs to live. He just needs hours and hours of therapy! I have a soft spot for broken things.
Same with Jude. They both need serious help.
@Rachel haha same
That’s not even a relationship tho ?
Hush Hush, Patch and can’t remember her name ?♀️
Nora. And agreed ?
@Melissa Nora. Wanted to punch that idiot.
If you have ever read any Colleen Hoover books, her book called “It Ends With Us” is exceptional.
@Tiffany it ends with us is a great book. I love it so much ❤️ it’s not ya though..
@Dianne yea. Sorry I forgot it said YA
Mare and Maven from Red Queen ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Oh man. The thing with the baby… I couldn’t get past that.
SAME
idk how people can romanticise it so much there’s No chemistry
the whole dang series was barf, to me. But that relationship was especially cringey
@Rachel what thing with the baby? I haven’t read the series since in ages and I’ve forgotten most of it and can’t be bothered reading it all again.
@Sian when Maven leaves a dead baby for mare to see when they’re searching for the newbloods
After- Anna Todd – Tessa&Hardin…
It is such an unhealthy relationship that I actually was pissed at Tessa for most of the book. I’m still going to go see the movie though ?
Not a real example because not canon, but The Darkling and Alina. Just mentioning it because a lot of people ship them. He’s manipulating af and had all the tools to use his power for good-but literally chose evil his whole life.
@Savanna yes! Thank you! Mal is terrible, too — Alina deserved so much better ?
THANK YOU!!! I have no idea how people can read Siege and Storm and still believe Alina and the Darkling would be good together.
Tampon and Feyre A Court of Thorns And Roses.
@Staci who is tampon?
@Krishna Tamlin lol
@Staci ah
This is the best ” autocorrect ” ever! hahaha LOL
I think they word abusive is thrown around a lot surrounding the relationships demonstrated within the YA genre, when I don’t strictly believe that it is always the case/applicable. There are many problematic relationships demonstrated in YA, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are abusive. Also, a story cannot happen without conflict, and some writers choose to add conflict to their relationships too. Not everything can be a coffee shop, slow burn AU where the two characters have time to fall in love. YA fantasy is generally set in a world of Empires, repression and dead magic, so the relationships often reflect that
@Ruby I agree with this. A lot of these stories or situations that people are chalking up too abuse I just don’t agree with. You have to think about the stress and strain related problems most of these couples face and the challenges they’re forced to overcome in their perspective books. Also at the end of the day, it is a story nothing more. If you can’t realize that those relationships are not something to live by then you have a problem all your own
@Ruby fully agree. Some of the titles being thrown around here are hardly abusive
Tamlin with Feyre
Yes! Most of these seem like unhealthy relationships doomed to fail, but this one was definitely abusive.
Maxon and America from the Selection, nothing healthy about that relationship
Obsidian (lux series) by Jennifer Armentrout
I haven’t heard that before, but now as I think about it, I can see it. Damien was a complete dick in the first book and only got a bit better later on.
Yeah I looked at bookshelf and I had the same thought Damien was pretty hot and cold especially when Katy went to sit at their table and their first kiss… such an ass but still a sexy one ?
@Brooke I still love em! Lol
@Angelee same ?
I don’t class Twilight as abusive. Edward loves Bella. Tamlin And Feyre’s relationship gets abusive after ACOTAR.
You by Caroline Kepnes count?
Eeeeeehh I’ll say yes. Like we know everything Joe did is wrong. The whole tampon thing….gross!
A Court Of Thorns And Roses(this one was abusive on purpose)
A court of thrones and roses
Wuthering Heights (I don’t know if it’s technically YA but sooooooo unhealthy.)
@Trish I refuse to be called Kathy (Cathy) because of that book. ?
Man, I think I would too. I started reading it and I was baffled by how much I’d heard it talked up as a great romance when in fact it’s horrifyingly abusive. More like a case study on struggles with poor mental health.
The Folk of the Air, Jude x Cardan (The Cruel Prince/The Wicked King), or, The Grisha Trilogy Alina Stakov x The Darkling
Rhys x Feyre acotar
Explain please?? Have you read all of the acotar books?
@Amelia Yes please explain. Have you read the series???
@Amelia oh yeah I need elaboration on this one.
Me too?
Guys, she said “Acotar”. I’m pretty sure we all had bad vibes about Rhys in Acotar…………
Amelia Jarvis do you mean only in ACOTAR or the whole series???
@Morrigan I don’t even remember Rhys doing anything bad in the first book, we only had Tamlins opinion of him, which was always gonna be bad because they don’t like each other.
Rhys’ first encounter with Feyre was him saving her from those three dudes that we all knew were gonna hurt her
@Jess I’m thinking of Feyre’s opinion in the first book. She seriously disliked him Under the Mountain.
WTF???? Please explain.
Because the abusive is Tamlin!
Rhys got Feyre drunk, UTM, and sexually danced with her without her consent. That’s sexual assault. Yes, I have read all of them. Rhys abused her and the narrative forgave him because he was the new Love Interest.
If you don’t want to listen to that, fine. But in denying Rhys’ assault on Feyre (again, she was drunk and DID NOT CONSENT) you are invalidating thousands of women and men who’ve experienced the same or similar abuse in real life.
I thought he didn’t touch her or barely touched her during the time she was drunk?
Or am I remembering wrong?
He touched her hips/waist/ thigh area which is sexual in nature, therefor sexual assault.
Their relationship is not at all healthy
I think im going to reread just so i can find this scene because its bugging me now
Rhys was trying to protect Feyra and pretending to abuse her so that Amarantha did not find out about his real feelings towards Feyra. Even Feyra was relieved in acotar when she woke up and found out exactly in which areas’ ink was smudged meaning in which areas he touched. He got her drunk in the first place so Feyra did not have to witness all the depravities and at the same time he got to protect her.Let’s not forget that one slip from them would have resulted in their death. And Rhys could hardly get Feyra’s consent considering he had to maintain the pretense of being the bad guy. Rhys explained his every action in acomaf. You can give that a reread ?. More importantly, it was a pure fantasy novel and does not have anything to do with invalidating abused women and men in real life! That was practically a WAR and we can’t actually hold that behavior of Rhys under the mountain over him because even if we consider real life situation, war changes people and can make them go to desperate lengths to survive and protect their loved ones.
1) “He got her drunk in the first place”… he got her drunk against her consent. Regardless if it were a life or death situation, it is absolutely NOT an excuse to assault someone like that.
2) It wasn’t to protect her, it was to show off to Tamlin. He (Rhys) even said so. I don’t have the specific quote but it’s there.
3) Explaining his behaviour does not excuse it and doesn’t make it okay. I’ve reread that series multiple times, I don’t understand why everyone keeps asking if I read it. I own all three books in the acotar series (and acofas!).
4) What you read can echo into actions of your own life. For example, young girls will be reading Twilight (as an example) and think Edward’s behaviour is something desirable, something to look for in a boyfriend. You may think its pure fantasy but everything we read has an impact on us and some of those things get internalised and become thoughts. i.e; “i want a man like rhys”.
Rhys who sexually assaulted a 19/20 year old girl for his own benefit. Rhys who let his cousin’s abusers trample through her safe space (Velaris). Sure, great example of a boyfriend.
5) My entire family on both sides comes from a military background. I know exactly how troubling and ugly war can be, I know exactly the profound affects it leaves on people.
Secondly, I have every right to hold it over Rhys’s head. Everyone in the acotar fandom hates Ianthe and Tamlin for their abuse but seem to look over what Rhys did because he “loves” her and did it to “protect” her. Surely if this exact thing (without the magic) happened in real life, you definitely would not be rooting for Rhys.
I’m sorry but you can’t change my mind. Rhys sexually assaulted her and their relationship is far from being healthy or “goals”.
@Amelia Partly to piss off Tamlin but Amarantha wanted to torture her. So he did while at the same time keeping her safe. Claiming it was assault is overreacting. At that point he suspected who she was. He made her forget so she wouldn’t be more traumatized than she was. They were prisoners making the best of their situations. Your example on young girls, well that needs to be taught. We as a society should teach these young girls what acceptable behavior is while at the same time teaching them life isn’t perfect and make the best of a BAD. I think your view doesn’t take all the context into consideration. Let’s put aside ACOTAR, what about his behavior in ACOMAF AND ACOWAR? So how would you have rather seen the story go? Feyre went back, was taken prisoner, Tam was useless and Rhys was powerless to help. So how would you write that story so that they all make it out? What makes this story great is that it’s not a classic cliché. It touches on difficult situations such as emotional abuse, trauma, being violated, ect. And yes I do think Rhys behavior is excusable. In the end he and Lucien were the only ones that even tried to help Feyre. And let’s be real, in real life we don’t get kidnapped by fairies and have to fight for our lives. So people need to learn to separate fantasy from reality. And we need to explain how to our youths the difference. That’s where parenting comes in. We shouldn’t blame material meant to entertain us for our problems. Books, games, ect.
Okay. I agree to disagree with you then. I admit that their relationship did not start well but later on it did blossom into a good, healthy relationship and was in no way abusive. I am an avid fantasy reader and never in my life have i ever come across a hero who loves and respects the heroine as much as Rhys respects and loves Feyra and gives her the freedom to become who she really is without any regard to what his subjects or other people might think. And as a law student, I have come to see beneath the surface whenever there is a crime or offence committed and give regard to the intention of the accused and as well as the circumstances they were in. So considering they were in War as well as Rhys was fighting to keep himself as well as Feyra Alive and how much their relationship later developed, I would they they had definitely the healthiest relationship ever seen in any YA books.
Amelia Jarvis And no he didn’t sexually assault her. She danced for him on Amaratha’s orders, against his will and he found a way to undermine her. So you’re wrong. I take those kinds of instances very serious. But yes, you seem set in your opinion so we will agree to disagree.
Air Awakens. Unpopular opinion I know, but I didn’t like Aldrik in the first book even if he gets better later which I don’t know/care about (because I DNF’D it). It’s funny how they behave in that way and then one explanation makes it alright.
@Mona
Aldrik: *pushes Vhalla off a building*
Vhalla: *falls in love with him*
@Joanna and the way he talked to her, grabbed her chin and all. I hated that behaviour so much. Why would you fall in love with such a person. I can’t understand how so many people found that relationship *swoon worthy*.
-how was Twilight abusive????
How’s about when he threw her in a car and had his much stronger brother physically restrain her when she protested?
-What situation are you refering to? Chapter?
In the first book, right after the baseball game.
It’s more toxic then it is abusive, but the emotional abuse is very abundant in the first two books.
-He had just heard that vampiers were going to hunt and kill her so he acted on impulse. Emmet would never hurt her. Besides she wasn’t protesting that he was taking her away, she knew the danger. She was just scared about Charlie and wanted to say goodbye. He drove her back and explaind to her why he did it. I don’t think Edward should be juged by a moment of impluse, thoughout the series he always checked if Bella was ok or wanted/needed anything. He always put her first, even above himself. That was not abuse.
-Toxic? How?
-Don’t get me wrong, Edward is no saint! He mad mistakes and so did Bella, the book has it’s faults but I wouldn’t call him abusive.
Yeah, if a man’s first impulse is to take away my free agency and disrespect my need to protect my loved ones, I think I’m good to judge him a bit. ?
@Valéria He breaks into her house to watch her sleep (without her knowing), she becomes borderline suicidal in the second book just so that she can see some sort of hallucination of him, he goes to have himself killed when he thinks that she’s died, he prevents her from seeing her lifelong best friend (even goes so far as to have his sister babysit her). There’s more but that’s all I can think of at the moment.
-What? He was thinking about how she was going to get hurt and taking her away from harm. He didn’t think about anything else because that is what being implusive means, you think about the situation in the moment. And you have to remember that he is a vampire and all of his family are vampires, he is use to them being able to defend themselves. He isn’t use to thinking about loose ends like having family that can’t defend themselves. But he knew that Charlie deserved an explanation and Bella needed to say goodbye to her dad. He even made sur that he was safe. If a man’s impluse was to take me away when some crazy dude wanted to kill me heck yeah that is an awsome relationship.
-sorry Harriet McPherson, you made some really great points and I would love to keep this conversation going but its 2am here and I have school tomorrow. I’ll get back to you tomorrow, goodnight.
-Trish, great meme. I get where you’re comming from but that situation is not considered abuse. Should he have acted in a diferent manner totally but he realised what he was doing was wrong and drove her back. And that goodbye and Charlie’s safety was the only reason she didn’t want him to take her away, other than that of course she wanted to get the hell away from James.
-I thought we were having an engaing conversation, if you don’t want to talk about it anymore I get it but the memes are kind of petty ?♀️ I got the memo though, have a goodnight (or day). Bye.
I thought we were agreeing to disagree, which is what I was attempting to convey.
Read Adam…it is bad with abusive relationships.
Rhys and feyre
@Krishna come again?
@Krishna Please explain? I don’t get why some people say Rhys and Feyre
@Barbie its possible they’re referring to under the mountain…. buuuuuut…. I think they’re missing how what he did was to protect her…. to each their own I suppose…. or maybe they just haven’t gotten far enough in the series??? I’m hoping it’s the latter or else they’re missing out
@Staci Absolutely!! I am guessing people haven’t read the whole series. Correct me if I am wrong though… love to see that perspective… ??♀️
@Staci agreed
@Barbie same!
WTF???? Explain PLEASE.
The only abusive is Tamlin.
In my opinion, Rhys and Feyra’s relationship was the best relationship that ever happened in the history of mankind or faekind whichever you say. It was not abusive!
@Staci I think we r being trolled
@Barbie lol no other explanation! FEYRAND FOR LIFE! ?
There are a few people who have mentioned Feyre and Rhysand from the full ACOTAR series, and I’m genuinely curious. Could someone who has read the full series and still thinks they’re relationship is abusive please explain why they believe that?
I, personally, didn’t really see signs that could be considered abusive. (At the same time I’ve only read the series oncr and flew through it. Maybe I’m missing something?) 🙂
@Jess following because I’m curious as well lol. I’ve read that series multiple times (I reread it from the beginning with each new book Release lol… I may be sliiiightly obsessed ?) but I fail to see the abuse. (Under the mountain in Amarantha’s court doesnt count in my opinion because he was trying to protect her)
@Staci Completely agree! That doesn’t count.
And I would also call that blackmail, not abuse, he didn’t force her in any way to make the decision she made (from what I remember)
And i do really wanna reread (I only discovered the series a couple months before frost and starlight came out) but there are a million others I wanna read too 🙂
@Jess lol same! The struggle is real!
@Jess I think Tamlin and Feyre would been considered unhealthy lmao definitely but I don’t think I see Feyre & Rhys so I’m following lol
I’ve spoken to a few people who think this, and i honestly don’t believe they’ve read the books, at least not further than book 1. Not just because of their Rhysand hate but mostly because they have all the details wrong
@Kaylee maybe they don’t want to move past the under the mountain stuff? Or they’re just seeing the situations differently? 🙂
@Jess no matter what reason i don’t take people who criticize books without actually reading them serious ?
@Kaylee oh I’m hearing you ?
Oh and also Magnus and Cleiona: Falling Kingdoms.
But Magnus and Cleiona is different, his dad slaughtered all her family , her people,his dad stole her kingdom….there was hate between them because of this, he was her enemy. Magnus, killed someone she loved at the beginning of the book 1…. and by being forced to get married, they had to spend time together and they learned to love each other. After the third book when they admitted their feelings for each other, they relationship was normal and strong .
ACOTAR, abusive characters and definitely unhealthy because I seem forgot what are sleep, rest and most of the time eat when I was reading it.
Can I say almost anything by Colleen Hoover? Lol
Okay, my issue is that we’re calling out complicated/abusive/controlling/etc relationships in YA when, in most of these, the characters themselves are morally grey or the relationship is OPENLY painted as unhealthy and not an ideal? Are we allowed to have violent, thieving, stealing, etc YA characters but they can’t have the equally torrid romances that accompany it? We never see posts about which books are the most violent.
Twilight to me is problematic because it IS painted as healthy and an ideal but is not. Tamlin and Feyre is a red herring and Maas wakes up the audience to the truth in the second book. And we’re really calling out Jude and Cardan, who are in the LITERALLY amoral world of faerie and aren’t even in a relationship right now? Jude is openly painted as becoming more corrupt throughout TWK.
Except nobody said anything about calling it out, or romanticizing abuse. They simply asked for stories where abuse is portrayed. Sometimes the story acknowledges the relationship is abusive, sometimes it romanticizes it. Both are an answer to initial question.
It’s more NA than YA and not really fantasy, but I just finished the Old Money Roulette series this weekend… it makes 50 shades look like a healthy relationship, but I think that is what the author was going for. The books are just over 100 pages each
After, is the most shit and abusive.
Tamlin with Feyre en Acotar.
Shatter Me Series (ducks and covers)
literally every single book by colleen hoover
Artemis to Acheron when he was just a mortal. Even after he became a god she is still pretty crappy to him. (The Dark Hunter series)
After series
Tamlin/Feyre in Acotar
Zoey Redbird from House of Night series and of all of her Relationships
Tessa × Hardin (After)
Claire × Jamie ( Outlander)
Feyre × Tamlin (Acotar)
Jude & cardan, taryn & loche, feyre & tamlin, Christian & Anastasia, mare & maven
50 shades
@Nithya this isn’t abusive! So they do BDSM…they both agree to it.
@Hannah No, it is not the bondage that is the problem. The book does not display a healthy BDSM relationship at all. He is a creepy, controlling stalker who is definitely emotionally abusive.
@Heather, he’s not emotionally abusive at all! He clearly loves her!
Shitty examples of bdsm aside, Christian Grey is way emotionally abusive. He’s manipulative and controlling af and creepily stalks anastasia both before and after they are together. He uses sex as a weapon, threatens and extorts her into a relationship she has no clue about, and also takes advantage of her naivete.
I saw none of that lol!
Lol alright ?
@Nithya I mean it’s not YA but I agree. There are have articles about this from women and men who participate in BDSM relationships that explicit say “this is not a healthy BDSM relationship.” He uses sex as a weapon to wield. And he admits he’s not a Dom. He’s a sadist. On top of everything Jennifer already said he’s emotionally abusive and extremely manipulative to get what he wants.
@Hannah
https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/385267/
@Hannah
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/caitlin-roper/fifty-shades-darker-is-fi_b_14674132.html?guccounter=1
@Taylor I don’t see him as abusive, as I said above. He’s just very misunderstood!
@Nithya yeah I’m not even into BDSM and I could tell it was unhealthy. I know authors who write BDSM and get shabby whenever it’s mentioned.
Considering this was Twilight fan fiction, I’d be curious as to how people who view Edward as abusive view Christian.
I’m into BDSM, and I know for a fact that 50 shades is abusive.
@Abbie How is it abusive?
@Hannah One example I can think of is when Ana wants it to stop. She says no, no more. And Christian tells her that he’ll tie her feet if she doesn’t comply.
@Hannah In BDSM, if the sub says no, the dominant should listen. That’s why there are words called “safe” words. The beginner ones are green for everything is fine. Amber or orange for “I’m not sure about this.” And red for “stop, end it.” If someone says no, then you stop, not ignore it.
@Abbie, Christian doesn’t ignore what Ana wants. When she wants to stop, he stops.
@Hannah you just seem to be hearing what you want to hear. No one time she says stop. He does not stop.
What chapter are you referring to?
So I think one scene I took issue with was when he denied her an orgasm as punishment for disobeying him. She had NO CLUE what he was doing and it upset her a lot. It was his responsibility as the Dom to educate her on things like withholding as punishment. It’s been ages since I read them, so I can’t think of any others off the top of my head.
@Lucy He didn’t say anything? You should tell your sub what they’ve done.. like what?
I will admit that I haven’t read the books BECAUSE of all of the articles that I’ve read about it. I’m just giving examples I’ve found. Even if it did read it, I think I’d find multiple problems on it.
If you haven’t read it then you can’t judge!
@Abbie yes, as the Dom he should’ve made her aware when they were talking about hard/soft limits that punishment in that sense was to be expected. She likely would’ve said that was a hard limit, considering her reaction. A Dom isn’t necessarily in charge of every aspect of a sub’s life; the line between where he’s dominant and where he’s not needs to be very clear in a relationship like that.
@Abbie ohh yeah you need to read the books, then. It’s MUCH more clear in the books than in the movie.
@Hannah I didn’t say BDSM is abusive and unhealthy. But in 50 shades it was badly portraited in some places like using belt and spanking when she has low tolerance. So I would categorize it as abusive. He loves Ana a lot but he hurt her too, physically and mentally. (especially due to Elena and one of his submissive) we can’t deny that.
@Lucy Exactly. Communication is vital to make it work. And practically ignoring a hard limit is a red flag to me.
@Abbie totally. The fact that punishment wasn’t even covered in the NDA is inexcusable on his part.
@Lucy What? Punishment must be included so the submissive knows what will happen if she/he misbehaves.
@Abbie yeah they talked about what could go in which places and whether he could beat her with a paddle, but nothing about punishment for evading his security guards.
@Hannah Every single one of your replies is why 50 Shades is so toxic and dangerous. You’ve completely romanticised an abuser who stalks, manipulates and disregards the boundaries of the woman you say he loves. I hope that no man ever treats you the way Christian treats Ana because you’re better off in your disillusioned bubble than being put through that kind of emotional, physical and sexual abuse
Airion Nichola Price, he DOESN’T abuse her in my eyes!
@Hannah if Christian wasn’t a rich guy you’d be singing a whole different tune, my friend.
@Leanna no, I wouldn’t. I’m certainly not a gold digger! ?!
Hannah, you need to calm down. I get that you’re being defensive and feel attacked because we have differing opinions. I say “we”, because it looks like you’re the only one that doesn’t see the book as problematic.
As someone who knows a little something about BDSM and abusive relationships, in addition to having read the books, it is absolutely a toxic relationship.
@Hannah did you read the last few comments I wrote? If not, I’m copying them here.
So I think one scene I took issue with was when he denied her an orgasm as punishment for disobeying him. She had NO CLUE what he was doing and it upset her a lot. It was his responsibility as the Dom to educate her on things like withholding as punishment. It’s been ages since I read them, so I can’t think of any others off the top of my head.
As the Dom he should’ve made her aware when they were talking about hard/soft limits that punishment in that sense was to be expected. She likely would’ve said that was a hard limit, considering her reaction. A Dom isn’t necessarily in charge of every aspect of a sub’s life; the line between where he’s dominant and where he’s not needs to be very clear in a relationship like that.
BDSM is about consensual pleasure, not whatever the Dom feels like doing. You can choose not to see him as abusive if you want, but you can’t argue that he didn’t shirk his responsibilities as a Dom, which is a HUGE red flag.
@Lucy it’s not abuse, though. Abuse is hurting the sub. He doesn’t hurt her. She agrees to whatever physical/emotional thing he does to her.
Not to mention the fact that he tells her she’s not to see her mom, or the lack of aftercare. And Hannah, I didn’t insinuate you were a gold digger. What I meant was if Christian’s ‘playroom’ were in a shack and he weren’t a rich man, it would be a different story for you. Sure, we all want a charming, wealthy man to sweep us off our feet. Wealth doesn’t have to mean you’ll get everything you want; sometimes it just means someone can provide. It’s more instinctual than materialistic.
@Hannah but she didn’t consent to that kind of punishment though. He never told her that was a possibility and didn’t explain what he was doing until after the fact, which is wildly irresponsible on his part. A sub doesn’t consent to “whatever” the Dom wants; it’s actually the other way around, and I think that’s the key fact you’re missing. The Dom can only work within the limits of what the sub agrees to, hence the safe words. If he chooses to go outside the lines without her permission, that’s an abuse of trust and power.
@Hannah it’s emotional abuse, not physical.
@Hannah Look, grown-ass women who have been there are telling you that this man is abusive. I am genuinely afraid that you can’t or won’t recognise it. He does hurt her, in many ways other than physically, but he charms his way out of it. It’s not a healthy BDSM relationship and it’s certainly not a healthy ‘vanilla’ relationship. He might “love her” but he doesn’t do a very good job of introducing her to his world or taking care of her once she’s there. The worst thing is that the author intends for readers to feel about him as you do and it’s her that is guilty of producing this poorly written, unresearched tripe for people like you to lap up
If Christian wasn’t a rich man, this would be the plot of an episode of Criminal Minds or Law and Order SVU. Period. 50 Shades is an insult to BDSM as it’s poorly portrayed. It’s an insult to women as Christian treats Ana like a plaything rather than a person. He wields his power and uses his own abuse as an excuse to treat Ana like crap. His behavior points to a classic case of abused becoming the abuser. (Yes it happens, though not in all cases.) It also is a poorly written book as well, so it holds no interest for me due to the aforementioned abuse and the poor writing quality.
I’m still disagreeing with you all! It’s FICTION. If someone can’t separate that from real life then they’ve got a problem and it’s nothing to do with E L James!
Wow. Okay. Not for nothing but just because something is FICTION doesn’t make it okay.
And passing off abuse as a fairy tale is extremely dangerous to impressionable minds. I wish the series had been out before my experience, maybe then I would have recognized the signs.
@Hannah I agree that it’s fiction and people should not take it at face value. That said, it depicts a very real lifestyle poorly. It’s not like Twilight where we can say Edward was a vampire and make up a little head canon about vampires being obsessive creatures. People read books like this and think this is actually what BDSM is about.
Fiction leaks to real life. Ever heard of slender man? Teenage girls attacked another girl because of something FICTIONAL. Women who read this are going to think that this messed up version of BDSM and “love” is okay. It’s not. I worked in a domestic violence shelter. Guess what? The book was banned there because it was a representation of abuse.
Fiction has an impact on real life. People read this and think “This must be what a relationship looks like” and when their significant other begins to isolate them and manipulate them, they don’t see the signs and they don’t run.
@Lacy Thank you! Yes it’s a work of fiction, but it’s also still a representation of abuse under the guise of BDSM.
@Abbie I have degrees in Psychology and have worked in a shelter where I was trained to see the signs of abuse. It bothers me to see so many women reading and watching this series thinking that it’s an okay representation of any relationship or BDSM.
Abuse means different things to different people, I guess. For me, it’s violence, for you it sounds as if it’s anything impressionable.
@Hannah emotional abuse can be just as damaging if not more so than physical abuse.
And it’s not that it means different things to different people. Emotional, psychological, and verbal abuse are very real.
Honestly, Hannah, not to sound bitchy or anything, but if you don’t think emotional abuse is a thing you really need to become a little more self aware. I really hope you never have to experience how emotional abuse is.
@Hannah Abuse is abuse. Mental, verbal, physical, emotional, monetary, sexual. It all is abuse regardless of what it is. You saying abuse is only violence downplays every survivor’s experience. Personally, it offends me because I am a victim of domestic violence at the hands of an emotionally, mentally, and sometimes physically abusive father.
As I said, it means different things to different people. What I think it is, clearly isn’t what you think it is.
Hunty, it stopped being an opinion a while ago. Just because you don’t think it’s abuse doesn’t mean it isn’t. Which is extremely dangerous for you. You can’t just deny factual evidence.
Well, maybe you can, but you shouldn’t.
Tamlin and Feyre.
Warner and Juliette
I have to hide this post. ?
AFTER lmao the most toxic relationship that you will love and hate at the same time
@Hannah I didn’t say BDSM is abusive and unhealthy. But in 50 shades it was badly portraited in some places like using belt and spanking when she has low tolerance. So I would categorize it as abusive. He loves Ana a lot but he hurt her too, physically and mentally. (especially due to Elena and one of his susmissive) we can’t deny that.
I agree. BDSM was given a bad light, but Christian himself needed major help.
Yes, the way he always put himself first and get jealous over petty things. Though he is lovely and sweet sometimes he is beyond repair.
Taryn and Locke ‘we love differently’ my ass
Tamlin and Feyre, ACOTAR series; Mare and Maven, Red Queen series.
Breathe by Abbi Glines
Alina and Mal from the Grisha trilogy
@Anjali explain? I’m not gonna rage out at you, I’m curious. I’m not too keen on their relationship either.
@Shannon Mal keeps hurting Alina, blaming her for all the trouble they have landed themselves in and keeps degrading her self confidence. And Alina just goes with it and takes it all like a doormat instead of feeling empowered by her powers.
@Anjali it may not really be the topic but the first time I started reading Shadow and Bone it wasn’t the original English version I’ve read (the german version) and I hated Mal but after reading the English ones … I like him???♀️ I know he blames a lot but I can’t help??♀️ …okay I haven’t read ruins and rising yet but..??♀️
@Rebecca
The Black Witch. I am NOT hating this book or anything (I just finished the first book and I love this series already) but there are abusive relationships in this series.
This book has been getting a lot of hate from people and it annoys me so much. The book has problems like racism, sexism, abusive relationships and stuff like that. It’s a fantasy book and it’s a great one but there are some abusive relationships in it.