Looking for queer/gender non-conforming fantasy recommendations!
Looking for queer/gender non-conforming fantasy recommendations!
140 Answers
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Loading Please wait
Looking for queer/gender non-conforming fantasy recommendations!
What is gender non-conforming?
@Tyler it’s some made up hippie lingo…
aahhh ok.
All it means is characters that step outside of man and woman binaries/gender norms. Funny how even fantasy lovers can still be like magical creatures, other worlds, sixteen syllable names- we get that, that makes sense! But oh more than two genders or stepping out of our western society’s gender norms? That’s too far Mark Wells!
You are born and privileged as that! Your sex is given! Why change? Absolute load of bollocks
I’ll go as far as acknowledging a change if they have an operation even though the chromosomes dont change but I am not using made up pronouns.
Gender and sex are not two different entities.
Gender and sex are indeed different, sex is obviously more scientific where as Gender has more to do with roles within the society.
Gender cannot be separate from sex.
Society is trying to separate the two but it was originally just a synonym in applications.
If you say so, however I have taken many collage courses that differentiate the two. But it seems like you’re an expert so I will say no more.
Y’all are ridiculous. Do some research. Sex and gender are, by definition, two separate things. One is about your chromosomes and your internal and external genitals, which by the way has TONS of variations. So sex isn’t as “given” as you may think.
Gender is entirely a social construct. Boys like blue and trucks, girls like pink and ponies. That’s society and has nothing to do with chromosomes or gender. These norms have changed over time. Earlier in the 1900s pink was for boys and blue for girls! It’s a social construct. Basically every culture besides westernized colonial cultures have at least 3 genders and many have more than a dozen genders.
Educate yourselves. HOWEVER, we are literally talking about fictional FANTASY books here. Pegasus, unicorns, magic, MAKES SENSE. BUT BOYS ARE BOYS AND GIRLS ARE GIRLS. Wtf? Y’all must read some pretty sterile fantasy because you have zero imagination.
Gary no one cares what you think. If you only want to read stock standard fantasy go ahead. It’s none of your business what others do
@Tatiana I never said what others should do or should not do.
I just stated my personal views on the matter.
Do with it what you will.
Also intersex people exist. There’s a lot of chromosome variations.
Also there’s more research happening that shows physical evidence in the brain for transgenderism.
Also a lot of interesting stuff in non-western cultures as well. (Shrugs)
@Hannah ??♀️ is right. I hear the same kind of thoughts all the time about people who aren’t hetero too.
There’s so much info out there about it that at this point it’s conscientious stupidity to deny people’s realities just because they don’t match their own.
Personally.
I go by the physical attributes.
Not what someone feels they should be.
That’s me.
Physical attributes are fine – when you can’t tell though? (shrugs) having a different appearance isn’t going to do harm. What does do harm is how people deal with it – especially when close friends or family come out, or maybe don’t. While I’m not a fan of yelling at one another – conversations are best – the sad reality is that people are angry because people are dying due to hate. It is a complex issue with multiple facets – hence conversation is better than arguing.
In the case of fiction, expression through clothing, appearance, and mannerisms are what we have if we have no images (unless graphic novels). So while a transman on the page may seem to have no differences to other men described – for some readers it can be important to know that. Gone a bit overboard I guess but yeah ^_^;
@Hannah I don’t hate the trans community though I’m often labeled as a transphobe.
I just don’t see the logic in not being able to deal with the cards your dealt.
This is fair – not understanding doesn’t equate to hating, I have a friend who’s parents don’t understand it but still accept/love him, cause it’s still him, ya know? World is complex.
I think the difference when it comes to not understanding is when confronted with it – how you react etc.
In fantasy worlds, things can be much more, well, world bendy. Depends on the writing and cultures built. ?
My annoyance comes from people expecting me to call them whatever pronoun they want and when I say I won’t do that they get mad at me and it gets into a heated argument.
@Gary it’s transphobic to deny other people’s existence and reality though. You keep on talking about people’s sexual organs. This is not the same as gender. Transgender has to do with how people feel. Their sex has to do with how they reproduce.
And even reproductive organs vary greatly. There are tons of women who have testes but will never know unless they have complications or certain surgeries. There are tons of men who have ovaries. There are people with XX chromosomes and XY. There are also ppl with XXY, XXX, XXXY, etc etc etc.
So sex is one thing and scientifically and cosmetically can be very different. There are not just two sexes.
But this is a separate conversation from gender and transgender people are speaking to their gender. Which is how they feel and is based on social constructs.
Gary Franklin Pereira we talk to people the way that is respectful or we don’t. It’s your choice. You don’t have to be respectful towards others. I hate when men call me hunnie, sweetie, or the like and if I ask them not to, they should stop, that’s being respectful. If they don’t, that’s disrespectful. My name is Samantha, but I used to go by Sam. When I asked friends and family to call me Sam, no one was like OMG you’re such a pain! Making me work so hard! It’s totally normal, people change their names or nicknames all the time.
If you ignore people’s wishes, that’s your choice. But again it’s disrespectful and it’s so simple to be respectful.
@Samantha I’ve never been one to live by feelings.
I found that it hinders my logical decisions.
Also, I’m disliked by a lot of people because of my blunt nature.
Again, I’m not transphobic. For lack of a better term I’m emotionally stunted which I’m working on.
My gf points out the areas where I need to be more receptive to peoples feelings.
@Gary I feel that and can definitely respect that you’re working on yourself. But keep in mind that you “feel” that you’re a man just the same as trans people “feel” the gender they are. So in your work on yourself just make sure not to disregard things as illogical or just feelings simply because you don’t think or “feel” that way.
I’m all about being honest and my blunt nature can put people off too. Maybe you can tell!
However, I always lead with respect, even when I don’t understand or agree with something. Whether respect is just feelings or it’s logical in an ultra-social society, I find that even when I disagree with people, I’m not generally disliked because I start with respect.
Keep on putting in that work though! We’ve all got to.
@Samantha the main reason I don’t like not being blunt is then it means there are things I can’t say and I hate it.
I loathe it.
Cause with me you will always know my stance on things. It’s cut and dry but with being careful about what I say it leads to miscommunication or misinterpretation cause something had to be phrased delicately and all of that sounds so laborious.
Same with the pronouns. I don’t hate the person but with me confirming to that it makes me feel I’m compromising my personal belief or view to satiate someone elses.
Do you get what I mean?
Also, I like the fact that your blunt cause like I said earlier.
It’s cut and dry. I know stance and I respect even though I don’t agree or follow it.
If you can’t tell I suffer from bouts of Existential Nihilism and Cosmic Nihlism or as it’s also known as Existential Pessimism (it’s something pessimism)
@Gary that’s just the thing. You CAN say whatever you want, but there are also consequences for it. It’s just your choice what you want to say and what consequences you want to face.
I’m incredibly thoughtful in everything I say, but it’s not laborious. It’s not about being “delicate” or tip toeing around cuz I sure as hell don’t. It’s about being respectful and truly listening to other people’s point of view and evaluating it. Then from there you can make a choice about whether you adopt someone’s perspective or accept facts or not.
I can tell you do that because you’re still here messaging with me lol. It’s just your stance/ideology/feelings, whatever you want to call it, makes you feel in this particular scenario that respecting someone else’s reality, which may be at odds with your perspective, is “compromising” to your personal beliefs.
Again though, your personal beliefs can be whatever and you can say whatever you want to people. But there are consequences to being an asshole or disrespectful, just the same as there are consequences on the other side, letting people get away with being assholes or disrespecting you.
So I’m all about being honest and clear. I’m also all about being thoughtful with my words because they DO matter and as one of our primary forms of communication, it’s how we represent ourselves to others. Those two things are not in opposition. It’s just that you don’t like, disagree with, or don’t understand something and are choosing not to be thoughtful or respectful.
I want people to treat me with respect so I do my best to treat others with respect, it’s as simple as that. It’s not complicated, you just want to find a reason to justify your point of view. That is what it is and it makes sense, but just be aware of it and be honest about it.
Also, truly do some research on this topic. Learn more about the immense variations in genetic sex and the scientific difference between sex and gender. It’s fascinating actually. Then you can be just as annoying to people (like I am! Trust me ppl get sick of hearing me talk about this stuff), but moving from a place of respect and knowing and logic, rather than simply feeling or ideology.
@Gary you realize this logic is extremely flawed, with thinking like that I could call you “little bitch” and not understand why you would be getting so upset about it.
@Craig-Richard I thrive off conflict.
I wouldn’t be offended but would see it as competitive fun to see who can outcuss who.
My closest friends and I cuss each other out all the time.
Hell for my friends stag and doe party we roasted the couple.
So that doesn’t really apply to me.
@Gary you’re side stepping the point, but you know that.
@Samantha more like clarifying some of the reasons why I do what I do but off topic yes.
The Broken Earth trilogy features queer and nonbinary characters. Not the focus of the series however. Plus it’s a really amazing trilogy.
N.K. Jemisin is my favorite author! The Inheritance Trilogy by her goes even further in expanding ideas about gender and sexuality.
@Samantha I agree. She is one of the best writers today. I just remembered Freshwater by Akwaeke Emezi if you have not yet read that.
@Jon oh! I thought I had never heard of it, but when I searched it on Goodreads, turns out it’s already on my want to read list! Thanks for the reminder.
That book had me in tears it was so good.
New Shoes by BC Palmer is on my TBR list.
New Shoes: A Saint-Moreno Novel https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DN3717C/
Okay! Just read he synopsis. Way outside my normal choice, but I’ll check it out. Thx!
Robin Hobbs Realm of the Elderling series might fit, at least one character
I’m trying to figure out what the first book is in this series. Goodreads is only showing 0.5 in this series. Is it maybe called the Farseer trilogy or do you know the name of the first in the series?
Yes the first three books are the farseer trilogy and the first book is Assassins apprentice. You probably need to read all 16 books to get the gender non conforming aspect though as it’s not a main focus of the story. They are amazing books so well worth it anyway ?
I was going to suggest this. I just finished all 16 and they were amazing books. Definitely has a bit of what you’re looking for and it’s written about in such a beautiful way.
Chronicles of Breed by KT Davies. It’s not the theme of the books and it may go a little different than you think, but the two books I read were fun.
This description sounds sweet!
Sean Connery scifi film
@Samantha do you have any suggestions for us? I’d love to read more diverse books within fantasy
Hell yes! Thanks for asking!
All three series by N.K. Jemisin! These all play with gender roles and sexuality.
Octavia Butler’s Lilith’s Brood/Xenogenesis series is about aliens that have completely different gender, sex, and relationship rules and Fledgling is queer and it isn’t since the relationships are actually symbiotic relationships between vampire-like people and humans that sustain them.
The Tensorate series by JY Yang. Queer, trans, and non-binary characters.
And I Darken by Kiersten White. Gay characters and a gender norm breaking character.
A Taste of Honey by Kai Ahsante Wilson. Beautiful afrofuturistic book. VERY unique fantasy.
LOVED all of these.
Each of N.K. Jemisin’s series are must-reads. She’s absolutely my favorite author.
She is actually on my list to read! I will look into the others thanks ? I’ve read so much standard fantasy I’m definitely wanting to read more diverse themes
@Samantha I haven’t read some of these! I’m gonna go download a couple now!
Tatiana Perrotta yes! I used to only read white men, and lemme tell you I was obsessed with some Robert Heinlein and other fantasy by these men. But women, particularly women of color, offer something in fantasy and sci-fi that I had NEVER encountered before. I make it a point now to read women and people of color in these genres and I am never disappointed.
I haven’t read them yet, but Nalo Hopkinson and Nnedi Okorafor do fantasy WAY outside the usual. I LOVED The Tales of the Otori by Lian Hearn.
@Samantha Lian Hearn lives in my home city! (Adelaide South Australia) I love her books as well!
Her books look very interesting! Thanks
@Angela I CONSUMED them.
The last herald mage trilogy by Mercedes Lackey. Magic’s pawn Magic’s price and Magic’s promise. Oldie but goodie
Just added this. I have always wanted to read Mercedes Lackey but was always so overwhelmed by all the options. Glad to have a place to start!
@Samantha there are a ton of valdemar books that take place mostly after the last herald mage I’m it’s a good world to live in for a while.
I read Mercedes Lackey as a teenager in the 80’s, she was the first author I had ever read that had lgbt characters, and changed my then closeted mind about lgbt people.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/ ..it has a list of lgbt books! I don’t know where the list is on the sub but it does have it!
Thanks! I always save these lists when I come across them.
Rifter series by ginn Hale has a gay lead. I didn’t personally finish the series but what I read was pretty good. I couldn’t afford physical copies though because after vol 1 (which consist of 3 books per volume) the books become $500 but you can get them via ebook pretty cheap.
@Trista $500?!
@Amber yeah. They’re out of print now. When I saw that I was like omg!!! I feel like it’s one of the reason I put the series down, knowing I’d never own the physical series.
Ancillary Justice, By: Ann Leckie
Uhhhh ya that’s insane!!!! I’ll see if I can find em thru the library.
imajica by clive barker has a character who is a mystic and can change genders and identities at will
@Brian wrote an amazing urban fantasy called New Shoes that fits the bill.
Is this right? Brian Palmer? I can’t find it on goodreads.
These are badass! Unlike anything I have ever read! Enjoy!
Also, Richard Morgan the Steel Remains, the cold commands, and the dark defiles
Ergh just read a review and I don’t do graphic rape scenes unless the rapist gets murdered or at least nearly so. Does the rapist die brutally?
I actually dont recall a graphic rape scene… one thing comes to mind and I will say, there is no shortage of people dying good and bad
Ultimate gender non conforming books would be the Wreaththu series by Storm Constantine. It’s about a race of intersex/androgenes who were turned from human males. There’s also another race of androgenes turned from human females. A good lesbian book is Santa Olivia by Jaqueline Carey, although all of Jacqueline Carey’s books are good. Some of Mercedes Lackey’s books have queer characters, as do Trudi Canavans. Octavia Butlers books are also good. I love reading lgbt fantasy by female authors, it’s my favourite thing to read. I have some more suggestions if you are interested.
Yes please! My favorite genre too. What should I read by Trudi Canavans. Never heard of her. LOVE Octavia Butler and ready to get to Mercedes Lackey. I just can’t bring myself to read Jacqueline Carey unfortunately. An abusive ex bought me Kushiel’s Dart and I never could bring myself to read anything by her since ?
I’d LOVE more recommendations of fantasy by women, particularly queer fantasy.
Samantha Pennington Santa Olivia doesn’t have any kind of abuse or Sado Masochism, it’s very different from her other books. It’s one of my favourite books and it has a lesbian lead. Trudi Canavan’s Black Magician’s Trilogy has two lead characters, one who is a gay man. Did you know that 40% of all spec fic is written by women? They just don’t get the same kind of publicity. Men write more sci fi and horror, women write more urban and young adult. Here in Australia, 2/3 of all high fantasy writers are women, yet if you look at a list of best fantasy books, they are always by men, with the exception of an Ursula Le Guin Novel. Try reading “Left hand of Darkness” by her, another gender non conforming book. The best is Storm Constantine though, I’ve read and re read her wraeththu books many times over.
@Angela oh yes, now that I intentionally seek women in this genre and particularly women of color, I’ve never run short on things to read! It can just be hard to find them. It pisses me off beyond belief when I go to a bookstore or library and all the fantasy and sci-fi is men. However, that shelf space is seriously changing and I’m loving it.
I will try Santa Olivia then and everything you suggested. You liked Wraeththu? I read very mixed reviews about how well it did in being queer or gender exploring. It sounds really intriguing though.
@Samantha I’m re reading wraethu at the moment. It has it’s flaws, but the first books were written in the 80’s and were groundbreaking for their time. The problem is they are androgenes but they call themselves male. Searching for the female part of themselves in a theme in the books, though.
https://www.amazon.com/Jordan-L.-Hawk/e/B00A2336YC
https://www.amazon.com/Winter-Pennington/e/B005H8L022/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1540087230&sr=1-1
@Samantha There is a series by a non binary indie author called “Whybourne and Griffin” and it’s based on H.P. Lovecrafts horror. The authors name is Jordan L. Hawk. I’ve give you a link to their amazon page and their smashwords page. I don’t much care for the gay sex scenes but that’s because I’m a lesbian and my son is bisexual and he has a boyfriend so it grosses me out. His boyfriend also loves this series, by the way. Another indie author is Winter Pennington who writes urban fantasy about a lesbian werewolf.
@Angela well I’ve gotta read Winter just cuz we share last names. Men seemed to be more blown away by Wraeththu which I think makes sense and also makes it intriguing to me.
Also I dig gay sex haha so I’ll try that too! Thx for all the recommendations.
Kai Ahsante Wilson is pretty indie and his afrofuturistic fantasy is gorgeous. It’s also queer. I’ve only read Taste of Honey so far, but it was beautiful. Definitely recommend.
@Samantha I usually download books from libgen but when it comes to indie authors I will always pay for them. Female authors, australian authors and gay authors I might pay for half their books and steal the rest. Not paying for books by straight white men, although I’ve been known to make exceptions (Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman!) I’ll check out Kai Ashante Wilson though, thanks for the recommendation!
Neil Gaiman is on my list. Haven’t read him yet, but I definitely think I’ll dig his books. I get pretty much all my books thru my various library accounts or used bookstores, but ya when I want to support an author I’m all about the pre-order!
@Samantha Have you seen American Gods? There’s a gay muslim character in it, which is almost unheard of. The romance in Jordan L. Hawks books is really sweet though. There’s another lgbt romance in the later books but I don’t want to give away any spoilers.
thanks for th fr by the way.
I didn’t know it was a movie!
@Samantha It’s a tv show. There’s only one season of it so far, though. Check it out.
Also I was contemplating sending you a fr when I got one from you!
@Angela ya I don’t meet people with these interests nearly enough! In fact idk anyone who loves fantasy like I do!
@Samantha Just so you know, I’m a gay indigenous Jew with a mental illness and a chronic physical illness and I depend on welfare, but going through your profile I don’t think you’d have an issue with any of that. Sorry, but I always check, had too many people I’ve had to unfriend.
Speaking of Neil Gaiman, in his Sandman graphic novel series, one of The Endless (Desire) is definitely non-conforming gender wise.
I currently cannot think of any Fantasy titles that are of the nature you are asking about. But I can suggest the mellenial series written by Stieg Larsson. It definitely breaks some boundaries.
If you’d like to dive into this genre there’s tons of amazing suggestions here now! So glad at the turnout here.
Oh oh oh… Also sm Stirling has a couple series that have strong lgbt and poly arrangements. Saber and shadow more fantasy and LGBT cast is a main character And island in a sea of time. Series alternate future fiction. LGBT is a lead character but there are many other narratives.
Oh I loved Jacqueline Carey kushiel series, lesbian lust is central to the plot but it’s not a love story.
Have you read Santa Olivia?
No but I need to.
@Julie It’s probably my favourite out of all her books.
Tamora Pierce writes a lot of young adult fantasy fiction and includes gay characters in her books.
What would you recommend by her? I’ve heard her name so much but don’t know where to start.
@Samantha Start with Terrier, Bloodhound and Mastiff. Only because they were the first 3 books I read. They were lent to me by a friend who is also gay.
I hate reading books that pretend lgbt people don’t exist. But that’s just me.
@Angela listen I can’t really stand any book that isn’t either representing queerness or at least deeply questioning societal norms like race or power structures. And books like Brave New World just do nothing for me. It’s gotta be written by people who really understand the harm of social constructs used to oppress. If you haven’t yet, you’ve GOT to read N.K. Jemisin. Her Inheritance Trilogy was super queer.
@Samantha I have the first one of those books, just haven’t got around to reading yet. I might do that after I finish the book I’m reading! Thanks.
Leigh bardugo’s young adult books have some very strong and memorable gay characters. Everyone is pretty much male or female though.
The assassin’s apprentice is a great read. It’s not the protagonist but his closest companion.
@Brett I’ve just read this book and I’m wondering if I missed something crucial. Who is queer/gender non-conforming in it?
Do you mean the fool?
@Nazli yes
I hope you aren’t about to accuse me of mislabeling…..
Lol no I just never reacted to it.
@Nazli Knowing the end does kinda put it in a box. But to the new reader the premise is there.
I guess the fool will play a bigger role later on? I’m halfway through the second book and so far I don’t have that big of a grasp on that character.
@Nazli ahh
I wish I hadn’t read it so fast. As someone who puts that series on a pedestal. Might I suggest your next series? If your a fan of fitzchivalry and friends so far. The last series I completed was “the demon cycle” by Peter Brett. I am almost finished with ” American gods” which is what I’m onto now. Would be happy to hear a suggestion.
Also anything else by Neil Gaiman. Read Anansi Boys next if you feel like staying i the same universe as AG.
Added to the list.??
@Brett beloved!!
Jacquelin Carey’s new book Starless
If a remember properly, The Fool in Robin Hobbs series, had some level of gender fluidity.
Anything by Poppy Z. Brite. They’re horror with a bit of Fantasy.
Casey Hoyt recommended these, and I highly recommend them as well: The Crimson Empire Trilogy by Alex Marshall. They don’t really feature any trans / non-binary characters but most of the characters are bisexual / pansexual. And unlike many authors it isn’t just a “hey, everyone is a lesbian” book (as I unfortunately notice with many authors who are willing to include more diversity in terms of sexuality); there is actually instances of male/male relationships.
Django Wexler’s Shadow Campaigns prominently features homosexual relationships; and two female characters who pose as men (for necessity, though, not desire…)
I can’t really think of any fantasy books that have outright trans people or people who don’t identify as binary genders, though.
Read conan the barbarian it great for everyone
Really anything by Robert e Howard or Tolkien
@Brandon Characters who step outside of gender-expectations do not exist in the works of either of those authors, nor do any gay characters.
Doesn’t mean it’s not a great read
Also I beg to differ have you ever read queen of the black coast
You also can’t forget eowyn slayer of the witch king in lord of the rings another character who steps out of gender norms
Another fantastic character from the conan books would be red Sonja another powerful female character who steps outside of gender norms
Best thread I’ve read in a while. I think my reading list is about to get a major remodel.
The Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice have some elements to this effect.
Naz if you like vampire fiction please look into “the order of the sanguines” by Rebecca cantrell and James Rollins. The blood gospel is a great read, as is the other 2 books of the trilogy. Vampires who survive as priest drinking the blood of christ (communion wine). Forgive my familiarness. I love recommending books.
@Brett thanks I’ll absolutely look into that! I do like vampire fiction as long as the main theme isn’t a romance.
You won’t be able to stop until you finish it all. May all your pages never crease. ?
That’s some promise ? haha thank you!
Just read the books for what they are. The best stories are never the ones that conform to our ideals
It’s more sci fi but my blog series The Prism features a transgender main character. You can find all the chapters easily in the menu. 13 chapters out so far
http://thegaymillennialagenda.com/
Try Shiva XIV series by Lyra Shanti
Teeth